B"H
Two recent events caused me to spend lots of thoughts on some society matters.
Last Shabbat I was invited for lunch by a chassidic family in Mea Shearim. Our host told me that the night before, she had advised a young newly religious woman not to jump into Chassidut.
Although I don't know if this young woman was a convert to Judaism or a Baalat Teshuva (born Jews who become religious later on in their life), I don't necessary agree to the idea of telling someone not to do something. Especially not when it is about finding one's right direction within Orthodox Judaism. Our host, on the other hand, insisted on her idea that a newly religious Jew should first learn basics; those basics mainly include Torah and Halachot. Only when I know the basics and build myself a fundament, I am able to reach stability. I have to know Halachot (how to keep Shabbat or how to cook kosher) and only then I can search for my personal direction: national religious, litvish or chassidish.
Not doing it like Chabad throwing their newcomers into mysticism without learning Halachot or any other preparation. This way, one cannot build up a proper basis.
Yesterday, I had a similar experience, as the subject was a little the same.
A certain Chassid asked me if I know any frum girls under the age of 26, as he wants to marry off his sons. I told him that I know some girls from the litvishe Yeshiva "Neve Yerushalaim" but they are litvish and not chassidic. The Chassid wasn't interested because he only wants to marry off his sons to girls who grew up chassidic and not became Baalei Teshuva or converted to Judaism. I asked him why and he gave me several good reasons.
First of all it is always a mess when the parents of the future spouse are either secular or not Jewish at all. It causes too many problems and misunderstandings. The second point he made is that a newcomer (either convert or Baal Teshuva) is many times mentally or emotionally unstable. It is not a good idea marrying off a born Chassid to a girl who converted. The religious newcomer has false expectations and cannot master the chassidic life. Getting adjusted in a totally different lifestyle is anything but easy and the born chassidic spouse cannot understand all the crises of the newcomer. Suddenly the newcomer wants to watch a movie or listen to pop music. This doesn't work.
Many chassidic groups don't force their members to marry someone from within the same group. Of course, if someone marries out of the group, the future spouse should somehow fit into the former lifestyle and have the same basic concepts and ideas. For instance, Boyan fits with Karlin, Chernobyl or Bobov. Chabad doesn't fit anywhere, as they only marry within the group and don't even teach other chassidic concepts.
Our Shabbat host married off her daughters to guys from different chassidic groups; although her group belongs to the Edah HaCHaredit. I had an interesting and long talk with one of her daughters who is married to a Bobover Chassid. I asked her if she didn't underwent many changes in her chassidic life ?
"No, not at all", she said. When she started looking for a Shidduch she told her father what kind of a guy she wants. However, she didn't mention any chassidic groups or preferences. First she cared about finding the right future husband.
Chassidic Shidduchim are always interesting to me, as it really makes me think how people deal with the whole situation of not really knowing the future spouse but still getting married. It is never easy making the right choices in life. It doesn't matter if it is Kiruv or Shidduch. There are always plenty of challenges and crises waiting. And especially Baalei Teshuva should be realistic and not set their expectations too high.
In case you know girls under the age of 26 who grew up chassidic and are looking for a Shidduch just let me know and I will start my life as a Shadchanit.
Monday, August 25, 2008
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Its always very interesting to read your blogs about Baal Teshuva being accepted into Haredi Life in Israel. iy"H I will find time to write a blog on that topic with my own experiences as a Baal Teshuva spending time with Haredim. My wife and I just got back from five weeks in Israel. I hope you will have time to comment and let me know what you think. Ill keep you "posted"
ReplyDeleteI think it's terrible that baalei teshuva are treated in this manner. The term shouldn't even be in our vocabularies. As the expression goes, it doesn't matter where you start climbing the ladder, as long as you climb it.
ReplyDeleteAnd if you know any girls who don't mind dating newcomers to frumkeit who are 26 years of age, and who roll with Chabad, please let me know.
B"H
ReplyDeleteTo be honest:
I do understand both sides.
I can understand the born religious that they are having doubts. However, one can be born religious and this is not a guarantee that the person is really frum. He can be messing around as well.
I think it is terrible how many Baalei Teshuva are treated second or third class. Especially when you look at Avraham Avinu himself who wasn't even born Jewish. Just look at his family including father Terach. Which born chassidic girl would be ready to marry someone like Avraham today ?
B"H
ReplyDeleteFORGOT:
I do know some Baalot Teshuva under the age of 26. If anyone is interested. The girls are from the States and studied or have studied at Jerusalem's litvishe seminary "Neve Yerushalaim". :-)
Yes, I am interested! I just got back from Ohr Somayach, and the girls of Neve were much discussed, though I couldn't stay much longer, and am now in America.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI can ask around. :-)
Great. Thank you.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteListen, I spoke to one of the girls and she told me that she wants to know details about you. So, maybe we should arrange something how you and her (or them, if there are more) might get in touch via e - mail or so.
Great. I live in the Baltimore Jewish community right now. My email address is pro_reason@yahoo.com. Just got back from Israel via Los Angeles.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI am forwarding your e - mail address to two girls. One in the States and one in Jerusalem.:-)
Miriam, I notice that your host neglected to mention the concept of "bnei niddah" or in this case "bnot niddah". i.e. anyone born of parents who did not observe the laws of ritual purity at the time of conception has a different and inferior status to those born of parents who did.
ReplyDeleteCurious that he didn't mention it.
B"H
ReplyDeleteThis is a great point and thanks so much for mentioning it.
I think that my host just didn't think about it, as I don't have another explanation.
When I see her again, I try to remember and ask her.
I know that this teaching comes from the Talmud but what do you say about Moshe marrying Zippora or all the forefathers marrying non - Jews ?
Hi Miriam -
ReplyDeleteMarrying a Ben Niddah is permitted as a heter only and therefore haredim are careful not to do it. The reason your host didn't mention it, I would suggest, is because the whole idea of it is offensive to baalei teshuvos. Bnei Niddah are tainted ("pargum") and have a pre-disposition towards rebelliousness and sinfulness.
After 5 years in a religious community and one year in a yeshiva, I still had not heard of this.
More on Bnei Niddah at Roman numeral II here http://www.aishkodesh.org/articles/library_ArticleDetail.asp?ArticleID=99&ArtType=R&left=1&pgno=1
You asked about the forefathers and Moshe marrying non-Jewish women. Intermarriage was not fully outlawed until Ezra's time (Ezra 9:2 and 10:3). As for the question of niddah, I have no idea, I guess some would say that this was before the giving of the Torah but then what about David, Solomon, Samson, Esther et al.?
Here are some other questions, perhaps you or your readers can help me answer:
How come the Torah references another book ("The Book of the Wars of God")? (Numbers 21:14)
How could Ruth convert without anything like of the strictures imposed on modern day converts?
How come the Torah states that if a man rapes an unbetrothed girl he can pay her Father and forcibly marry her (Deut.22:29)?
How come there are two versions of creation (Gen 1 and Gen 2) and two versions of the Decalogue (Exodus 20 and Deut 5)?
How come it states that Yair conquered a certain area of land and named it and that is what it is called "until this day" (“ud hayom hazeh” – commonly mistranslated) (Deut 3:14) when supposedly Moshe or possibly Joshua wrote Deuteronomy, not someone a long time later as implied by the use of “until this day”?
Best wishes
B"H
ReplyDeleteThe link you gave is more than interesting, and I will read it carefully. Frankly speaking, I have never thought about "Bnei Niddah" in connection with "Baalei Teshuva". Would be interesting what kabbalistic sources have to say about the subject.
You are right. It is very offensive to Baalei Teshuva and I am almost sure that places like AISH, Ohr Sameach, MIR, Neve Yerushalaim, etc. don't tell their new enthusiastic students about it. I think that many would be shocked because they might start seeing themselves as something "second class". But even the fact that they are going to have difficulties in finding a Shidduch (unless they marry another Baal Teshuva) is hidden from them. They only become aware of the fact when they are really into society and certain doors are suddenly locked.
As I am a Baalat Teshuva myself, what shall I say ?
Honestly, I don't consider myself as someone worth less. In my opinion, eventually only G - d Himself makes decisions and who is honest and who is not. Despite the Niddah trouble of ones parents.
By the way, in Kabbalah it says that Avraham's parents, Terach and Amtelai, didn't keep Niddah and this is why their souls were reincarnated and had to be reectified.