Hardtalk: Aryeh Eldad - Achmad Tibi

B"H

The students of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem organized a political discussion (4th February 2009) between the head of the Arab Knesset parties, Achmad Tibi, as well as with the head of the Israeli right – wing party "Ichud HaLe'umi", Aryeh Eldad.

It is not easy to explain Israeli political parties and their whole system to an outsider. I am hereby not referring to party scandals but how the parties work with each other and especially their history. Israelis are highly emotional; especially when it comes to politics. In our country, everyone is a little politician and knows everything better. Although the present government as well as former governments had different scandals or made law changes effecting the population in a negative way, Israelis are not the type to demonstrate. I just remind everyone of the famous budget cuts when Netanyahu was finance minister under Sharon. Netanyahu cut the monthly amount of money for the children drastically and besides a temporary demonstration outside his office, no one went out into the street. At home, everyone is a politician but real resistance is rare.

The classroom at the Hebrew University at the Givat Ram Campus / Jerusalem was packed. Even the first Israeli TV – channel showed up, as well as people of all ages. The two invited politicians Eldad and Tibi were told to stick to the subject, not to yell or get excited in any sense. The same was told to the public. "Lets discuss, but in a peaceful way. Even after the war in Gaza".

Aryeh Eldad and Achmad Tibi started by presenting the ideology of their parties. Each of them got ten minutes to do so.
Aryeh Eldad (Ichud HaLe'umi) stressed that his party stands for Zionism. Israel belongs to the JEWS and not to anyone else. The Palestinians can settle in Eretz Israel but what they do not have is any right of demanding territory. However, they would get rights such as social benefit, vote for the Knesset, pension, etc.

The "Ichud HaLe'umi" intends ending the Arab occupation starting 1300 years ago. The Arab Knesset members may cry out for a bilateral state where two peoples (Jews and Palestinians) live together but this would cost us the Jewish identity of the State of Israel. In that case, the Arabs even demand to get rid of the national blue – white flag showing the Magen David. The "Ichud HaLe'umi" is not supporting such an idea", said Aryeh Eldad. "Israel has to remain a Jewish democracy".
Furthermore, Aryeh Eldad is planning to abolish Arabic as the official second language. Until now, there is a law that the second language of the State of Israel is Arabic. "It cannot be that a minority of 20 % of the whole population is demanding to turn their language into the second language. Do the Mexicans in the States demand Spanish as a second language of the United States ?

When I say "20 %", the figure applies to Palestinians with an Israeli ID – card and not to the ones in Gaza, Ramallah, Jericho or Bethlehem. Furthermore, no one understands where the Palestinians were when Sderot was bombed by the Hamas (for the past eight years). Instead, Arab Knesset member show their sympathy for terrorist groups including the Lebanese Hizbollah.

Achmad Tibi responded that democracy in Israel only means democracy for the Jews. Jews only and the Palestinians are constantly being discriminated. Second class citizens and nothing else !
He, Tibi, doesn't fear the as a fanatic considered Avigdor Lieberman and if we Jews think so, we don't know the Arabs. The only people who should fear Lieberman are the Jews themselves because who wants such an extremist ruling ? Lieberman is just like Joerg Haider, the former head of the as Nazi – party considered "Freedom Party" in Austria. Lieberman is the same as Le Pen and Haider.
When Haider used to be vice – chancellor of Austria, Israel cut the diplomatic ties and what about today ? An Avigdor Lieberman is allowed to sit in the Knesset spreading his racism against the Arabs.

While saying all this, Achamd Tibi got really excited and started yelling. Raciscm against Palestinians, discrimination, Haider … He (Tibi) is convinced that the Palestinians have a right demanding their own territory from the State of Israel. He cannot see any peace ahead but maybe there will be one day. The main condition, however, is that Israel has to stop its occupation (Kivush). In the West Bank, for instance. Achmad Tibi doesn't want any more Apartheid but seeks democracy for the Arabs in Israel.

Afterwards the public got the opportunity to ask questions:
Aryeh Eldad stated that Jews should make Aliyah and that he is glad about every Jew doing so. Israel needs Zionists and those who are not Zionists are not welcomed. With this statement he referred to the Palestinians rather than to the Neturei Karta.

Question: How can it be that Achmad Tibi is only demanding but not offering any support to Israel ? The Palestinians get the same social rights as any Israeli. Shouldn't one also does something for his country and not only asking what to get out of it ?

The listeners in the classroom were quite mixed: secular and religious Israelis and a few Palestinians. However, whenever the topic got to the Hamas or Hizbollah, left and right – wing Israelis stuck together and showed unity against Tibi. How can it be that Palestinians with and Israeli ID – card agree with Hizbollah to destroy the present State of Israel ? With an Israeli ID – card one has obligations and where are those obligations carried out by the Israeli Palestinians ?

Question: In order to assimilate or have a more successful integration into Israeli society, the Palestinians should do some kind of a civil volunteers service at the age of 18 or so. Volunteering in Arab villages or institutions.
Achmad Tibi responded that he wouldn't accept any orders form the Ministry of Defense telling his people to volunteer as a kind of a "not – going – to – the – army – replacement". Someone asked if he would accept such a suggestion from the Ministry of Education but Tibi remained silent.
He doesn’t accept any order from the Israeli government.

When it was Eldad's turn, he made the only right point:
The Palestinians have any equal right in Israel but the only thing they do is complaining. The Jews would discriminate them and the whole country is full of racism. Not everything negative in Palestinian society happens due to discrimination. Why don't the Palestinians finally build up something instead of demanding ?

Eldad emphasized that as long as Palestinians live in Israel, they have to go according to the rules. For instance, they have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state.

Someone asked how Achamd Tibi considers the women's rights and he claimed that Arab society does speak about this subject and doesn't only ignore it.

According to Aryeh Eldad, an entire Palestinian country already exists – in Joradn. Why don't the Palestinians move to Jordan when they scream out for their own country ?

A new immigrant from Russia asked why the Palestinians don't leave if they don't like it in Israel. As a matter of fact, those Russian immigrants who didn't like Israel went back to Russia. So, the Palestinians could leave as well.
Achmad Tibi considered this question of being a Chutzpah ! He additionally called the head of the Sephardi – haredi Shass – party a war criminal, as he (Eli YIshai) wants to destroy Gaza.

And where have the Palestinians been for the past eight years when Gaza was bombed ?
Achmad Tibi made the point that he is against bombing civilians and he had said so in the past. Then Tibi got mad again and accused Israel of killing the children in Gaza. And no one had apologized for that. Eldad replied that he is sorry about the innocent children dieing in Gaza during the war. The War itself, however, was finished far too early and Arab Knesset members have no right identifying themselves with the enemies of Israel. A state in where they live.

Conclusion:
Aryeh Eldad stated that we Israelis are stupid. Stupid because we listen to all the Arab claims. Israel is a Jewish state and everyone else settling here has to keep the rules.
Achmad Tibi, on the other hand, argued that Israel is full of racism and discriminations towards Palestinians. These were the only arguments Tibi used. Abroad the masses would still go for it, in Israel, however, we are sick of listening to those stereotype opinions without seeing any improvement and stopping Arab hatred towards the Jews.