Rabbi Shmuel Wosner announced a new decree in his last Shabbat Teshuva Derasha:
A woman sitting on a bus should not publically use a cellphone.
Publically means that the woman shouldn't make a phone call in front of all the male passengers who, in this case, would be forced to listen to a female voice.
In the middle: Rabbi Shmuel Wosner
In his Derasha last Sunday, the Rabbi stressed an increase in modesty (Zniut). Countless times before, he had seen women walking between men or women using their cellphones in front of men. This behaviour would be totally immodest and unacceptable.
If this is a halachic decree or just a "recommendation" ?
Sources claim that Rabbi Wosner made a recommendation.
In Orthodox Jewish society, a female voice is considered as extremely tempting to men. Therefore it is not accepted that strange women (not someone's own wife or daughters) start singing in front of a man.
Personally I witnessed many cases where Israeli national religious girls came into a haredi synagogue and started singing. This even took place in front of the Kotel (Western Wall).
I do respect this kind of law but, on the other hand, think that there are simply exaggerated issues. Men may disagree with me but as a woman, I find Rabbi Wosner's recommendation or whatever it is, as too far off. A man hears a female voice, so what ?
I don't see it as my problem when a voice arouses him. If a man has a problem, he should either keep away or go to a psychologist. And just keeping quiet wouldn't help anyway because those men facing such problems or temptations will find their pleasure somewhere else. You wanna bet ?
This Znius craze looks more like eastern european stetl culture to me. Nothing wrong with that. But seriously, how is this realted to Judaism at all. They would have a hard tine finding proper Halachic rulings defending it.
ReplyDeleteThese people live in a different century. Actually, scrap that - these people live in a fantasy of what a different century was like.
ReplyDeleteAs a man, I can confirm that I have never been aroused by the sound of a woman speaking to someone else on a mobile phone. Anyone who has needs to get out more.
Miriam - you have not really pointed out the discriminatory nature of this advice or rule or utterance or whatever it is. Only women may not use cell phones in public. Because they are women. That is the text book definition of discrimination.
As for women singing at the Kotel, the Kotel does not belong to the Haredim. The Kotel is in our hands as a result of the actions of the (largely secular) Israeli army. The Haredim have no right to dominate and control the public space around the Kotel to the exclusion of all other groups.
Avi
B"H
ReplyDelete@Lone Kvetcher
It is all about the Yetzer !
This is the explanation I always receive. Men have to protect themselves from going after the Yetzer HaRah.
Believe it or not: Once I asked someone if I could meet a certain Rabbi from the Edah HaCharedit for an interview. His Chassid told me that this particular Rabbi doesn't speak to women but only to his wife and daughters.
When I asked why this is so, the Chassid told me that this Rabbi is protecting himself from his Yetzer and even admits it openly.
Well, actually I find this quite open.:-)))
@Avi
Discrimination ?
I am not sure.
Let me tell you that for my part, I don't see myself discriminated when I cannot sing at a Shabbes table. Not in front of Haredim.
For some reason, this doesn't bother me too much. It does bother me much more when I am constantly being told that this Tish or that Tish in only for men. That men have Kiddush and women stand somewhere outside and have nothing.
I wouldn't take such haredi buses anyway but, of course, there are women, who have no choice. Especially when you live in a haredi settlement as Beitar or Modi'in Illit (Kiryat Sefer). Certain parts of Beit Shemesh are only connected by the 417 No. bus to Jerusalem. Within Jerusalem, for instance, such recommendations wouldn't be followed too much. Bnei Brak might be worse, as they also have a bus with a Mechitzah in the middle. I don't know if the No. 1 bus still exists but it used to be divided.
According to my opinion, it is just too much sometimes. I cannot understand how men come to all those conclusions. I would never think about voices and causing a Yetzer. About all this close, artificial wigs, natural wigs and all those Takanot. Sometimes I even think that people making up such decrees definitely have a problem with themselves or a serious psychological disorder.
For the Kotel:
It was the Israeli army fighting in the war but I do think that we also need a spiritual army (the reliious - not only Haredim, but religious). Next to physical fights, prayer is also important.
However, I do think that Haredim should go to the army. At least their majority.