"And where are the national religious ?"
I read this question in an Israeli haredi forum and must admit that I had already myself found asking this myself. "Where are the national religious when the Haredim are demonstrating ?
"It is not our style to demonstrate in such a way", may some of the national religious claim.
"Really ? This kind of violence is not your style ?
How about that ?
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Some commentators on that forum post sounded like "The national religious are too assimilated into secular Israeli society. One hardly sees the difference anymore". Other stated that the Shabbat doesn't have the same meaning for "them", as for the Haredim.
No, it is not spreading new hatred between the two societies but it is rather reaching the conclusion that these two religious societies are as far apart as they used to be even before the foundation of the State of Israel. Today it has less to do with Zionism but with the fact that Haredim and national religious call each other ignorant. Whatever this means on each side.
I have been to national religious yeshivot and to haredi ones but until today my experience is that the national religious have a much bigger problem with haredi society than vice versa. I cannot even say WHY. The national religious claim that Haredim are fanatics; I, on the other hand, claim that the national religious, including their settler movement, are fanatics. Although I am very much pro - settlements. But it is a certain kind of people the national religious NOAM schools produce. Instead of calling haredi society ignorant and closed, the national religious should look at their own society and where it is drifting apart.
Remains the question where the national religious are while the Haredim demonstrate against the parking lots on Shabbat.
One forum participant gave the best sarcastic answer:
"The are in the shopping malls !
How dare they!
ReplyDeleteWhere were the charedim when Jews were taken by force from their homes, farms, and shuls in Gush Katif?
They were busy selling their souls for money for their own mosdos. Taking money from the government in exchange for their support for the expulsion.
Seriously, I don't know how they can ask that question without shame.
B"H
ReplyDeleteThe question has a history and it started when Ex - Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu cut down on the children's money. Then the Gerrer MK Yaakov Litzman accused the national religious of not demonstrating but just complaining. Or in other words: Leabing haredi society alone struggeling.
As a kind of "revenge", the Haredim didn't interfere when Sharon kicked the settlers out of Gush Katif.
A famous haredi statement is that the Haredim know how to demonstrate and how to succeed in getting their demands. The national religious don't.
I have to admit that this has been true many times.
The money for the mosdot is mostly for SHASS. There are many haredim who don't take government money because they don't want the governent to interfere into their group.
For instance: The Toldot Aharon, Dushinsky and many others don't take a Shekel from the government. Not even for the educational system.
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ReplyDeleteI would be classified as national religious--I am orthodox, but I go to tishes and sometimes daven in Mea Shearim. You are right! Both sides need to meet and come together on issues--there is strength in numbers! I went to the protests & rallies to stop the expulsion in 2005, and I support closing on Shabbat (I also love strolling quiet, clear streets for a few hours each week). We are not that far apart--it just seems that politics on both sides are driving a wedge between "Jews", which after all is what we all are!
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI am not sure if it is "only" politics. It may be more stereotype instead. Everyone has his own picture of how the other side lives. But when it comes to remarks on Haredim by many national religious, the Haredim are seen as aliens; somewhere in their own ghetto.
I just saw this today in the blog of an former national religious Knesset member (Blog: My right Word).
I see many national religious in Mea Shearim on Shabbat. When I look at those guys from the Ezrat Nashim at the Tishes, it looks like they cannot believe how much the Chassidim their Rebbe admire.:-)
B"H
ReplyDelete@ Yosh
I am not calling you, as I don't even know you. If you want you can send me an e - mail ! The address is to be found on this site !
Where are they you ask? They are staying away doing the right thing by refraining from violence and anti-Jewish behaviour, that's where they are.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteThat's right but not when it comes up to their own issues (e.g. Peace House in Hebron, Gush Katif, etc.).
I sense alot of sinas chinam on this site. First, as an intro., I am not national religious, modern, or chareidi, but I do lean more to chassidus than any other group.
ReplyDeleteSecond, I am a geyores. Although, I am shomer shabbos and shomer mitzvos, and very tznius I do not label myself chareidi. Why? Because the word insinuates inflexibility, and noninteraction with people other than themselves. I am not like that.
Therefore, because of my background, I think I can be more objective about this issue.
What is really going on here is there is so much misunderstandings among different groups , these misunderstandings eventually turn to hatred. I have been to many different homes for shabbosim, and I am appalled at what comes out the mouths of some people where one would expect more love for a fellow Jew no matter what kippa one wears. I am not going to mention which groups here, but the problem is there is such lack of achdus, I wonder if this is impeding Moshiach, c'v.
But I have to say concerning the chareidim, because they are viewed by the world as very pious, they have a big responsibility on how they behave and interact with others not like them.
Whether you agree with me or not, those demonstrations that turned into disgusting displays of hatred was an embarassment to the rest of the Jewish world. Unfortunately, the rabbonim are to blame for those disgusting protests. Why didn't any of them make a public statement condemning their actions? It send such a terrible message that I have to say is another chillul Hashem.
By the way, if you have noticed Lubavitchers were not there either. There view on how to bring secular Jews to understand the beautify of Shabbos, is so opposite the view of the Chareidim.
Have a good day.
B"H
ReplyDeleteI sense a lot of Sinat Chinam in your comment !
You say Miriam "but not when it comes to Hebron or Gush Katif." One has to do with what they deem unappropriate behavior in the city of Jerusalem in which they're living, the other has to do with people being evicted from their homes and their land!!! Let the 11 who were incidcted today for rioting do some jail time.
ReplyDeleteMiriam, your response was very defensive and immature. When I made that comment your ego automatically assumed I was referring to you, although I do disagree with most of your articles, but to most of your commentators.
ReplyDeleteTake a chill pill.
B"H
ReplyDeleteI think you didn't understand my comment ! What referring to me ?
I am surprised what kind of conclusions people draw sometimes.