B"H
To be honest: I am not the type of person lifting up a woman's wig / headcover and look if she is bald or has hair.
In case she has hair: How much does she have ?
This is a rather symbolically statement and to put it in other words:
I wouldn't ask a chassidic women if she shaved her hair.
First of all, I would be to ashamed doing so; ashamed of also ashaming her, as this is her private matter. Secondly, because I am not interested. I am not running after the subject and, according to my own experience, I conclude somehow, that guys are more into the subject than women. Maybe to guys it means a certain attraction.
However, I was surprised to hear that many chassidic women still shave their hair. This really got me and not how they may look or how they cover their bald head. Does it sound naive when I say that I honestly thought that the younger female generation would change and not shave anymore ? Except for the Toldot Aharon maybe where the Takanot (internal laws) demand the baldness of a married woman.
But lets take Belz or Boyan.
I would have expected that the younger generation doesn't shave anymore. Put on a wig (Shaitel) and that's it. Now some Chassidim let me know that even their younger generation still shaves and no changes towards "modernity" are at sight. That's it ! No further "becoming more modern" discussions.
I expected the shaving of the Yerushalmim, as they are still extremely conservative, but Belz ? Now I learned something different.
I am surprised, a little shocked but I can live with it.
You are probably expecting me to ask why those women shave their hair and why they don't start a feminist rebellion ? What does a woman feel when her hair is being shaved ?
Yes, I am interested in answers but accept people's privacy. It is none of my business and if I was one of those chassidic women, I would treat it as a very private matter. I don't even think that I would share it with my husband.
And, yes, I do find it unfair to those women. But what do I know, as I didn't grow up chassidic. What do I know about things the girls have been taught ? Teachings they apparently accept.
Nevertheless, if such a woman was publishing a book about her feelings, upbringing, how she keeps her self - esteem, I would be extremely interested in reading it.
Monday, June 22, 2009
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Perhaps if you grew up with a mother/aunts/female group members who shaved their hair, it's a perfectly normal and adult thing to do so and you'd feel strange not to shave your hair? When female hair and its alleged beauty are no theme in your surroundings, do you give it a special weight?
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI agree 100%.
Basically this expresses the conversation I had with a certain Chassid yesterday. He said that his wife doesn't need hair anyway because she always wears a headcover anyway. So, what would be so bad about shaving ?
Personally I think that it is somehow humiliating to a woman. To a woman in general and not specifically to a chassidic woman.
Of course, it is tradition and chassidic groups very much stick to tradition - however, I still find it a little embarassing. This is my personal feeling and I am sure that I would react differently if I had grown up in that society.
I know a family joining a chassidic group and the woman very very much stresses on modesty (Zniut). Even though she is anything but Hungarian, her goal is to keep the customs. Even by wearing an apron on Shabbat !
Here is more about the apron custom:
http://shearim.blogspot.com/2007/06/hungarian-romanian-chassidic-clothing.html
And I am 100 per cent sure that this woman would not have a problem with shaving.
The chassidic life is her life and that's it. She is extremely determined about that.
In Skver they also all shave their heads. I was told in Satmar, as well. One reason, among others, is that so when the women go in the mikvah, when they go under they know that they will be completely immersed, without worrying that some hair stayed above the surface of the water.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteThis is a very famous reason for the hair shaving !
OK, so if the mikveh thing is accepted I have one question. What about the men and their scraggly beards, peyos and hair--to say nothing of body hair in general. To say a woman should shave to get a better mikveh is just silly. My family is from east europe and many women shaved their heads generations back--because head lice was prevalent then! There could be a hundred reasons for the start of the custom, but in the end it becomes a custom and I speculate that there is no single explanation--they just do it.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteGood point !
In fact, there are various explanations and the one I heard most is that the woman learned it from her mother; the mother from her mother and so on.
But, as you said, they just do it !
So when are you having your shaving?
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteActually I am HALF SHAVED already !
I have short hair.:-)
To be honest, I would rather shave because of the summer heat but without putting on a wig or anything.
maybe you can start new minhag - lets face it, it's very modest
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeletelets face it, it's very modest
Yes, but not without a headcover.:-)
i thought it was covering the hair not the head - if you have no hair at all.... what is there to cover?
ReplyDeleteThe head !!!
ReplyDeleteHair on the face to chassidim represents chesed. And hair on top of the head represents a negative trait, just can't remember which one it is. Isn't that right Miriam?
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI don't know about your concept but there is something in the ZOHAR about a person's hair.
There is a Zohar that when the woman covers here hair she brings in blessings for the entire family.
ReplyDeleteHair of the beard "draws the light of chassidim" - this is a mystical reason why not to shave beard in omer. Because its such a dark time we want as much chesed as psosible
B"H
ReplyDeleteYes, I have heard about that but I am almost certain that there was something further. Doesn't the ZOHAR describe somewhere what a certain hair style means ? If someone (in this case a man) is bald, has fluffy hair, etc. ?
Yes it does, if the hair is this colour, that colour, tight curls etc. also shape of face and stuff about the palm
ReplyDeleteFirst off women are obligated to go the Mikvah, not men. Mens mikvah use is a chumrah that is very holy and a good thing to do but is not a halachic obligation. That is why they can use a pool while a woman can not. A woman has to be totally immersed and I know from my wife that it takes at least 3 or 4 dunks to make sure all that hair is down in the water.
ReplyDeleteThere are many reasons why the hair is shaved. Mikvah, Lice, I ever heard because of pogroms women with no hair wouldnt be desirable to the men that might rap them CV"S.
Really though its one of those things that looks weird from the outside but on the inside where its the norm it isnt a big deal.
Plus a sheitel is hot with all that hair under there.
B"H
ReplyDeleteIt is not only hot because of the Shaitel. In case the woman shaves her hair, she usually puts on another hat (a tight one) and then the Shaitel. The reason is that if the Shaitel is moving, others don't see parts of the bald head of the woman but the second headcover underneath.
Secondly, if there is a tight headcover underneath the Shaitel, the Shaitel won't move.
I asked one woman practicing this if it is not too hot and she said NO.
Most women I know don't put on a cover under their shaitels. My sheitel adn many other women's sheitlich haven't moved.
ReplyDeleteThe zohar talks about hair on the head being a negative thing.
B"H
ReplyDeleteI have seen women where the Shaitel had moved without them noticing it.
Does the Zohar explicitly mean women as well or does it only talk about or in general ?