Tuesday, June 28, 2011

Arresting Rabbi DOV LIOR

B”H

Rabbi Dov Lior, (photo left) Chief Rabbi of Hebron and the nearby Kiryat Arba, is not as controversial as his Wikipedia may state. Secular Israeli Jews might follow the opinion that Rabbi Lior is an “extremist”; the religious world, however, sees him as a Rabbi who stands up and knows his job.

Yesterday (Monday), Rabbi Dov Lior got arrested by the Israeli police but was released after a few hours. The reason for the arrest was his refusal showing up at the police in order to state why he agrees with the book “Torat HaMelech” published by Rabbi Yitzchak Shapira.

Benjamin Netanyahu announced that Rabbi Dov Lior is not above Israeli law but has to keep it as every other citizen. Religious society including the two Chief Rabbis Jonah Metzger (Ashkenazi) and Shlomo Amar (Sephardi) protested against the arrest.


For about a year now, many secular Israelis, especially the left – wing media, is going wild about the book “Torat HaMelech” by Rabbi Yitzchak Shapira

“The book should be banned and all people involved thrown into jail !” – so the proclamation of Israel’s left – wing media. The press as well as the Shabak (internal secret service) have been running a witch – hunt against parts of the national religious and settler movement.
 

It is possible that certain statements appearing in the book could be seen as controversial but one has to understand the halachic background. Instead of dealing with the subject in a religious matter, the left, including opposition leader Zipi Livni, has behaving like a bull in a china shop without any understanding what the book is really about.

In 2009, the Israeli Rabbi Yitzchak Shapira published his book “Torat HaMelech” where he is making some statements such as “Jews have the right to kill Gentiles when they are endangering Jews. Israel’s press as well as the international media, however, just picked the headline “Jews can kill Gentiles !” Without any explanation of the entire context and meaning. This way, haters of Jewish religion started another campaign against Jewish Orthodoxy.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu definitely has his own interests because he is striving for further peace talks with Abu Mazen. The negative publicity about “Torat HaMelech” could "endanger" the peace process and Netanyahu also wants to show his “good will” towards the Palestinians. Thus, those national religious settler “fanatics” need to be punished. Nevertheless, Abu Mazen himself is not even interested in sitting together with Netanyahu.

It goes without saying that Rabbi Dov Lior is not above the law and should have gone to the police in order to make a statement why he endorsed Rabbi Shapira’s book. However, everyone now planning to complain about the book’s statements should ask himself whether he has actually read and understood the book instead of making propaganda about a topic he has no clue whatsoever.

20 comments:

  1. B"H

    The national religious demonstrating in Jerusalem against the arrest of Rabbi Dov Lior:


    http://www.bhol.co.il/article.aspx?id=29209&cat=1&scat=1

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  2. "It goes without saying that Rabbi Dov Lior is not above the law and should have gone to the police in order to make a statement why he endorsed Rabbi Shapira’s book."

    I disagree with you. While it's true that a Rabbi is not above the law, all this is a RELIGIOUS MATTER. It only concern the Religious public. The police and all the secularists should mind their own business in that case. Do you imagine what life would be like in the medinah if a religious Beis Din had to summon secularists for their anti-religious statements? Where are we going? Arresting a Rabbi for a book endorsment? They don't even know what the Shema Yisroel means, and they want to be involved in such complicated subject?

    Such matters have nothing to do with them, and that's why he didn't have to present himself to the police, to begin with. It's funny to see that freedom of speech is applied only on one side. When the secular newspapers print their anti-religious propaganda, is it not incitement? But NOBODY has never used KGB-like methods against them.

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  3. B"H

    As far as I know, is Rabbi Yitzchak Shapira teaching at the "Od Yosef Chai" Yeshiva at the Yitzhar settlement and a follower of Rabbi Me'ir Kahane.

    So, I assume that he is on the list of the Shabak and whatever he does or publishes, will be used against him.

    Although Netanyahu loves presenting himself "pro - settlers" and full of Zionism, he still tares down the so - called "illegal" outposts. More or less due to his leftist friend and Minister of Defense, Ehud Barak.

    With September coming up where Abu Mazen wants his UN vote for a Palestinian State, Netanyahu does everything in order to avoid disturbances. He has been trying to find partners against a possible UN resolution and cannot allow any right - wing settler publications.

    Unfortunately, the left - wing press can almost publish anything and no one is arresting them. Even the Haaretz journalist Uri Blau (see the female spy Anat Kamm) made an agreement with the court and continues his work.

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  4. Rabbi Ovadya Yosef opposes the book "Toras HaMelech."

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145306

    For me, it's not a surprise as we all know that Shas is part of the medinah's gv't. So, to express his opposition to the book has no credibility, since they are bound to Netanyahu. I even wonder if The Rav read the book or maybe someone else read it for him and made the book say what it does not say!

    Moreover, Rav Yosef is someone who changes his mind too often. If I quote you some of his sentences about the so-called "Palestinians" and the Arabs, you won't see any difference with what is writen in "Toras HaMelech." His "opposition" is a joke and is more politican than serious.

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  5. But I also agree with the reasoning of HaRav Elyashiv Shlita. There are books and information that should not be published or made public, because of the interpretation non-learned people will make. In that sense, he is right. And notice that he didn't say that the content was against the Halacha, as we all know that the book says the truth. But all the truth is not worth to be made available. There are certain things we should keep in the closet. But to arrest all those who sign an Haskamah? We're living in Sovietic regime!

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  6. B"H

    In July 2000, Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef announced in one of his Drashot that Jews who died in the Holocaust had certain Neshamot undergoing a Tikun and thus, they had to die (in the Holocaust).

    Many Israelis were outraged by his statement and Holocaust survivors freaked out. Rabbi Israel Lau said that Rabbi Yosef should refrain from spreading religious statements people don't understand. And, by the way, there is no proof anyway, as only G - d knows.

    I assume that Rabbi Yosef was referring to the Talmud Chagigah concept of the 974 souls. But, as Rabbi Lau, stated, there is no proof and not everything should be screamed out to the public and be published. Especially not without any explanation !

    SHASS has another little problem coming up at the moment. Their former head Aryeh Deri wants to return into politics but Rabbi Ovadia Yosef won't take him into SHASS. In earlier days, Deri became too popular and powerful and with Eli Yishai, the Rabbi has the perfect puppet.

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  7. You are aware that this book endorses murdering Arab civilians in times of war? And that it advocates the murder of babies on the grounds that the babies may grow up to be enemies of the Jewish people?

    Imagine if an imam published such a book about Jews. We would want to see him punished with the full force of the law.

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  8. B"H

    @ Avi

    Do you have any idea what Palestinian school books teach about Jews ?

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  9. B'H

    Avi your compassion is misplaced.

    First of all, Palestinian kids are raised to hate Jews from their birth. Even here in Europe, I was amazed to insulted of "Dirty Jew" by a...8 years old little Arab kid. So it gives you an idea about the tings they are taught.

    Second, all those who are critisizing the book didn't read it. The book is not calling Jews to murder Arabs, but is discussing a situation of war. Tell me saint Avi, should a soldier have compassion and pity when in the battle field? If your answer is "yes", the people is Israel is fortunate that you are not one of the members of Tzahal.

    Third, read the Torah by yourself and you will see that it's a command from G-d when going to fight the ennemy to kill EVERYBODY, because there is a possibility that when the children will grow, they will want to avenge their parents and murder Jews. This is in fact what happen because of King Shaul's compassion. G-d gave order to kill all the Benei Amolek. King Shaul didn't want to,, and the result was that some generations later, Haman rose to kill the Jews. If little children of 8 years old are able to hate Jews, we should resolve the problem from the root. It's not a question of racism, it's a question of REALITY, FACT and SURVIVAL! Their children are really raised to kill Jews. Just visit the Palestinian websites if you are not convinced. Read that. It was TEN YEARS before the publication of Toras HaMelekh: http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=4326

    And read that, it was 2 years before the publication of Toras HaMelekh:http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=85424

    So, saint Avi, tell me: who is calling to murder other peoples? Jews of those sub-humans?

    The day those sub-humans will understand that we will not give up to their terrorism, and that we show them we have the power to exterminate them, they will give up. Look at tyhe history of that conflict. It can be proven that when Israel had a strong politics against the Arabs, they kept quite calm. When Israel is showing some lightening and express a will to negociate, it arouses the appetite of those sub-humans and they multiply attacks against the Jews. So, the only solution is to beat them as strong as possible for them to keep quit. Look how they kept a low profile after the last war in Gaza. But now that we're talking about negociation, they are getting excited and willing to kill to hasten the outcome. The only language they understand is violence. It is sad to say that, and it's not racism, as I have many Arab friends, but it's the truth. So-called "Palestinians" only understand and are willing to listen only after being beatten so strong that they don't have any other solution.

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  10. I do. Can't see how that affects the application of the rule of law to this particular rascist book which incites murder.

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  11. "Imagine if an imam published such a book about Jews. We would want to see him punished with the full force of the law"

    Imans don't need to publish a book about that. Look at their children and you will understand what they are taught at home about Jews.

    Hating Jews is written in their blood, so please, stop with your fool compassion. The day they will rule on the Holy Land you and all the leftists will be among the first one to be victim of their "love" toward Jews.

    Do you want to know how they love us? read that:http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4087606,00.html

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  12. B"H

    Hatred towards Jews is nothing unusual and new among Arab school kids. A little kid throwing stones and identifying themselves with a Jahidi. I cannot see this among the Israeli Jewish population.

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  13. " Can't see how that affects the application of the rule of law to this particular rascist book which incites murder"

    So the Torah is racist according to you. I even wonder if you believe in G-d to begin with. It's not a question of racism. Did you read the book by yourself or just extracts from leftist newspapers? If you read it by yourself, you would have seen that there was no racism nor incitement. We are not raised to hate the Arabs (maybe the settlers are raised like that, I don't know, but if it was the case, there are not a majority). The book is speaking about a precise situation when you are in the battlefield against ennemies who swear to exterminate and kill us. If you do have compassion even for their children, when they will grow up and discover what happened for their parents, there is a strong supposition that they will seek revenge. We are not talking about killing babies like that for fun, or when we meet the children of an ennemy, etc. MOREOVER, everybody admit that the book speak about an hypothetiocal situation which is unlikely to happen in a real life, and the purpose of the book was only to present the Torah position on the matter even on a theoritical view. It is like saying that the gays must be put to death. This is what the Torah says, but we all know that on a practical level, it won't happen, but it does not change the fact that this is what should happen according to the Torah.

    And what about the law which says that if you know someone is planing to kill you, rise up and kill him first? I already know what you think about that: you should chose to be killed because it's cruel to kill someone who wanted to kill you! With people like you, I wonder what will be left of human beings on the planet.

    Complain to G-d, but keep your false compassion for yourself. To give the other cheek comes from another religion, not Judaism. And

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  14. B'H

    Moreover, I wonder why people are focusing about the mention of "children" in the book, while the main point of the book is to show that the lives of soldiers on a battleground is a priority when going in war. The book only show what the Torah already told us: when you are in a war, think about your life and your people first.

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  15. http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/145367

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  16. Moshe - have you heard of the straw man argument?

    I can't really follow any reasoning in your position but suffice to say - any book which advocates genocide (killing your enemies, their civilians and their children) is a book with which I disagree. It is also a book which has nothing to do with Judaism, at least not the Judaism which most Jews practice.

    As for this being a book of theory which is divorced from reality, Lior has strong links to the so called "Jewish Underground" terrorist group not to mention Yigal Anmir and Baruch Goldstein. He has blood on his hands.

    Finally, both Moshe and Miriam seem to hold the Palestinians up as moral exemplars: "they teach their kids to hate us so we should give rabbinic sanction to their wholesale slaughter." The Palestinians are not my moral arbiters and neither is this Jihadist book of "Torah".

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  17. Moshe - be very careful about the use of the term "sub-human". It has Nazi overtones.

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  18. " It is also a book which has nothing to do with Judaism, at least not the Judaism which most Jews practice."

    You are right, "Reform Judaism" is not Judaism at all!

    "Finally, both Moshe and Miriam seem to hold the Palestinians up as moral exemplars: "they teach their kids to hate us so we should give rabbinic sanction to their wholesale slaughter." The Palestinians are not my moral arbiters and neither is this Jihadist book of "Torah"."

    How the goyim behave is not our concern. What is our concern is what does the Torah say on such or such thing and situation. We cannot speak Torah with a leftist, he does not have the brain to understand. Moreover, as I said I have a lot of Arab friends, and B'H I have rarely met anti-semitism where I live, and I have no problem with Arabs. But we are talking about a war situation. Do you think that when the allies were bombarding the germans, the bombs were programmed to avoid babies, women and civilians? When you are at war, there is no such thing as genocide or whatever you call that. The main point is to destroy the ennemy, save your life and the lives of your people.

    "Moshe - be very careful about the use of the term "sub-human". It has Nazi overtones"

    The term existed long before the Nazis. You will not convince me by using the "Nazis" or "Shoah" argument, as I am not at all in the Holocaust business and "Jewish" victimization.

    How do you want to call them? Humans? They don't behave as such. Animals? It's an insult for the creation of animals to call them like that. The only word available is "sub-humans." They cherish death while normal humans cherish life. They are looking after their I dont know how many virgins in Paradise, while a normal human being has receive a mission to make this world a dwelling place for G-d. They cherish violence (Hamas in Hebrew means "violence") while human beings cherish peace. They use their children as human shields while for a normal human being, his/her children are the most precious gift given by G-d. I can give you much more examples that show they should not be called "humans" but "sub)humans." You are free to disagree, but with your typical leftist way of thinking, you are more in danger than myself.

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  19. "You are free to disagree, but with your typical leftist way of thinking, you are more in danger than myself."

    Fear is your overriding motivational force. It explains but does not excuse your disgusting racism.

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  20. Avi, there is a difference betwee fear and reality. I don't fear the Arabs. We are, in fact, surrounded by them all over. There is a reality in EY, and that reality is the point.

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