Tuesday, May 17, 2011

Yoelish Kroisz sold old Neturei Karta Pashkevilim


It seems that Yoelish Kroisz, one of the two Neturei Karta leaders in Mea Shearim, needs some cash because he just handed over old Neturei Karta and Mea Shearim Pashkevilim to the archives of Jerusalem's "Jewish National Library" located on the Givat Ram University Compound. 

For some time already, Yoelish Kroisz as well as Rabbi Shmuel Pappenheim (Toldot Aharon) have been openly dealing with Zionist representatives as well as secular journalists and writers. Maybe some writers even pay those guys and money is always important. The "good old" Neturei Karta doesn't seem to care anymore and even goes into business with the "Zionist" National Library.


  1. Unbelievable... what a sellout.. :(

  2. It has been for a long time that he lost all credibility. Another myth has been distroyed now: They claimed that they never touch "Zionist" money. Mmmmmmh. Now, we know it's not true anymore.

  3. Another myth was that they never used modern Hebrew. Excuse me, but when you watch all the interview Kroisz gave to secular media, they were ALL in modern Hebrew.

  4. B"H

    Well, how is Kroisz supposed to give interviews or make business deals with Israeli Zionists ?

    I assume that he doesn't know any English and what he knows is either Yiddish or Hebrew.

    The Neturei Karta had its last great leader in Rabbi Amram Blau (Bloi) and afterwards, everything went down the drain. Today, a person like Kroisz, is only looking for his own public relation.

  5. There are two Neturei Karta. The one which was led by R. Amram Blau ZT'L and the other which was hijacked by nuts when R. Amram Blau died. The Lubavitcher Rebbe had a lot of respect for HaRav Amram Blau and even corresponded with him (there is a letter the Rebbe wrote to R. Amram Blau which was printed in the Kfar Chabad Magazine of Erev Rosh Hashanah 5763). Once, the Rebbe said that if the Neturei Karta faction of HaRav Blau hadn't been making a storm about chillul shabbos in Israel, then Chabad would. Concerning those nuts who took over the movement after Rav Blau died, the Rebbe refered to them as "the Tzadikem" (in a very negative way). In fact, the nowadays Neturei Karta led by Kroisz has nothing to do with the faction which was led by HaRav Blau ZT'L.

    There is a famous story about the time when the Rebbe wrote to R. Moshe Weber, a Lubavitcher living in Jerusalem, that he should begin a Tanya shiur with R. Amram Blau ZT'L. The letter was also printed in Kfar Chabad Magazine.

    We also know that the Rebbe asked R. Uriel Zimmer to print a 19 pages booklet about Neturei Karta in the late 60's to explain how their battle against Zionism was right and based on Torah. The booklet can be read here: http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/resources/onlinebooks/guardians_of_the_city.cfm

    All this shows the respect the Rebbe had for R. Amram Blau ZT'L and the Neturei Karta of that time. R. Uriel Zimmmer ZT'L, who was the spokeperson of the Lubavitcher Rebbe on the issue of Zionism, was also very close to R. Amram Blau ZT'L.

    All this shows that the nowadays NK are nothing but nuts who have changed the message and policy of R. Amram Blau ZT'L, to the point that even Satmar distanced themselves from NK.

    Finally, one of the leading Rabbis of the important Yerushalamite Chabad community is HaRav Tuvia Blau, a nephew of Rav Amram Blau.

  6. B"H

    Just about two years ago or so, I briefly met a few young guys from the old Yerushalmi Chabad community and was surprised to hear them talking in Yiddish. They have their own Yeshiva in town and don't really accept anyone from the outside.

    I was suprised that I finally hear a Lubavitcher talking in Yiddish, as most of the newcomers of the movement have no clue anymore.

    Mea Shearim's NK has died with R. Amram Blau and nothing is anymore, as it used to be. Kroisz is too much after public relations and allows any idiot access to all former NK information although I am sure that he himself doesn't know much. Even his former group, the Toldot Aharon, don't want to have anything to do with him.

  7. "Just about two years ago or so, I briefly met a few young guys from the old Yerushalmi Chabad community and was surprised to hear them talking in Yiddish. They have their own Yeshiva in town and don't really accept anyone from the outside." The Yerushalmi Chabad community is a very closed community. They generally don't open their doors to outsiders. There are two reasons to that: 1) They have more stringent standards than the average Lubavitcher. For instance, women wearing a sheitel are not admitted. While the Lubavitcher Rebbe insisted that Lubavitcher women should wear a sheitel at all time (even at home, when they are alone), he also indicated that there is an obligation tio follow the minhagim and stringencies of a local community. Because many communities in Meah Shearim and Geula generally don't accept a Sheitel, the Rebbe instructed women to wear tichel and other hair covering instead. In that vein, the Chabad Yerushalmites don't accept sheitels in their neighborhood. 2) The Rebbe gave clear instructions that the Yerushalmite community should only be involved with very frum people and members of other chassidic communities. That's why theu geenrally avoid being in contact with outsiders. They also have to be kept far from Zionism, as per the Rebbe's instructions. Only Shluchim should deal with secular and Zionists.

    "I was suprised that I finally hear a Lubavitcher talking in Yiddish, as most of the newcomers of the movement have no clue anymore. " The reason why you don't often hear Lubavitcher speaking in yiddish is because most people know Chabad through kiruv and their local shliach. Most Lubavitcher being involved with shlichus don't speak it but chosse the local language. BUT, if you go in Lubavitch communities like the Yerushalmite, Paris or Crown Heights, Yiddish is the daily spoken language of many many Lubavitcher. In Paris, where most Lubavitcher are from Sephardic origins, yiddish is learned at school and yeshivah. For sinatnce, you are oblligated to speak yiddish to attend the famous Brunoy yeshivah. It's quite funny to hear them speaking yiddish while being Sephardim, because their Sephardic accent indicates that yiddish is not their mother tongue. But they speak it quite well. In Antwerp, Yiddish is heard all over, even from Lubavitchers. So, it depends where you are and in which community you live. The frummer the community is the more often you will hear Lubavitcher speaking yiddish.

  8. B"H

    Indeed, when one knows Chabad through Shluchim, Shabbat hospitality and Tanya - Shiurim, like me, you don't really think or see the other side. Unfortunately, this is what the majority of Jews see in Chabad today. The modern Shluchim, nice open - minded guys where you can show up in pants (as a woman) or in whatever clothes. It doesn't matter, Chabad likes and accepts every Jew ! This is how Chabad became famous and thousands of secular or even religious Jews are very grateful finding a Shaliach abroad inviting them for Shabbat or the famous Chabad Pessach Seder. Chabad always has an open door.

    I saw this when I was in Brussels for Pessach 11 years ago. I contacted the local Chabad Rabbi Menachem Hadad and instantly got an invitation to the Seder.

    Chabad is welcoming but many outsiders regard the openness as prostelysing. In some cases, this may be true but everyone going for Shabbat or a shiur has his own choice.

    On the other hand, as you said, the original Chabad side is less known. It is not a Disneyland or Coca Cola Chassidut but has a serious ideology.

    My question is:
    Doesn't it bother those original Lubavitcher when the movement is compared to the nice guy - Shluchim ?

  9. "My question is:
    Doesn't it bother those original Lubavitcher when the movement is compared to the nice guy - Shluchim ?"

    Yes, it bothers Lubavitcher when they hear things like "Lubavitcher women are hot", while the Rebbe was very stringent about Tznius and was clear that we shouldn't adopt goyish clothing styles and fashion. Do you know that the Rebbe ruled that ALL women should wear stockings at all time when in public? Wearing stockings at all time is prevalent in Lubavitch communities, but is a rarity to women involved in kiruv.

    Yes, it bothers Lubavitcher when they hear things like "Chabad is Zionist" or "The Rebbe was pro-Zionist." The story which happened to R' Rosenberg is the proof. The Rebbe was clear in his opposition. The ONLY reason why a Lubavitcher should be invilved with a Zionist believer is to bring him close to Torah and connect him to yiddishkeit.

    Yes, it bothers Lubavitcher when they hear what a mechitzah in some Batei Chabad looks like. In some Batei Chabad (I insist on the word "some"), you can easily see through the mechitzah, while to a Shliach who asked the Rebbe if he could be lenient about the mechitzah because he felt that in that way, he will attract more people, the Rebbe answered "Out of question. A mechitzah which enable women to be seen is not a mechitzah at all!" In other words, a mechitzah MUST be completely opaque. The Rebbe was so stringent on that point that he asked to build a semi-tinted glass as a mechitzah in the 770 shul, so that women cannot be seen at all. In Lubavitch shuls (not a Beis Chabad), mechitzahs are compeltely opaque as per the Rebbe's directives. We went so far to avoid tznius issues taht we built a giant mechitzah outside 770 women section (you can see the pictures here: http://www.crownheights.info/index.php/xml/index.php?itemid=13711&catid=48) Of course, you will never see that in your Beis Chabad community.

    Yes, it bothers Lubavitcher when they hear things like "Lubavitcher are lenient when it comes to halacha" while the truth is the opposite. In fact, one of the reasons why most Chief Rabbis in Europe and the world are Lubavitcher is that we are known to be very very stringent on issues partaining to halacha and Jewish observance. For those in the know, Chabad Kashrus is known to be one of the best with the Kashrus of the Edah HaCharedis, because when it comes to halachah, we are laughters. Ask anybody who decided to leave Chabad and you will hear that one of the main reasons why they left was because we are TOO MUCH.

  10. So yes, they are many things which bother Lubavitchers, BUT, we are a family and we know that shluchim have their mission. If it was not for the shluchim, Chabad would never have been what we are today. Many Shluchim are doing a great and difficult jobs in bringing thousands of people to religious practices. And I want to insist on the fact that shluchim adapt to their environment. For isntance, they are many shluchim who were very "cool" when the congregants were on a beginner lever. But when the community reached a certain higher level, they raised the stringencies in due time. These are real shluchim. And there are many like that. There are even some we divide their work in two: one part involved with the secular and the beginners, while at the same directing programs specific for more advanced congregants. And they don't act the same way with each other. But for those on a beginner level, they always hope to bring them higher. And finaly, you have the average Shliach who is affraid to lose his secular congregants and because of that lower to their level and remains there instead of raising them up. He does not really teach them what Chassidus Chabad is all about, but instead, he turns his Beis Chabad into a club. That is contrary to the Rebbe's will who said "Lubavitcher must bring Jews close to Torah BUT not be brought close to them!" A shliach who adopt a cool attitude because his congregants are cool but don't bring them close to Torah is not a good shliach at all. And this is why many people are confused about what is Chabad chassidus? What is a Lubavitcher lifestyle? As the Rebbe said, to be a chosid means two things: to have chessed for other people, because every Jew is precious to G-d, but also means to be a very pious Jew (that's why people generally refer to chassidim as being "Ultra-Orthodox"), a Jew who NEVER compromise on matters ruled in Halachah and shulchan oruch. I can argue that most Shluchim are good shluchim. If you want to know how Lubavitchers are really fanatical, just go and visit some Chabad forums online. You will be shocked reading what we think on some issues. And you will understand that a Lubavitch community is not directed the same way a Beis Chabad is, and that what the normal Lubavitch tgink, act and behave is quite different than the life of the average Shliach.

  11. "Chabad is welcoming but many outsiders regard the openness as prostelysing. In some cases, this may be true but everyone going for Shabbat or a shiur has his own choice."

    A shliach's mission is not to turn his audience into Lubavitchers. Quite the contrary, because, in fact, Lubavitchers don't easily accept new comers who were used to lead secular lives. It's a fact that one of the reasons why there is a shidduch crisis in Lubavitch is that most Lubavitchers don't want to accept marrying baalei teshuvah, even if they became Lubavitchers. They are affraid that they might introduce some aspects of their ancient lives into Lubavitch communities. And because Chabad is nowadays composed by many Baalei Teshuvah, it leads to a shidduch crisis,a dn that's how you have many Lubavitchers who are still single (it's not the only reasons, but all the Rabbis and Chabad forums agree that this is a serious problem facing Lubavitch now, and many Rabbis and shidduch specialists are working to put an end to that discrimination to solve the shidduch crisis). So, no, Lubavitch is not so open. The main mission is not to turn other peoples into Lubavitcher but to arouse in them a love for Torah which will lead them to chose a more religious lifestyle than the one they are living now. It's not the same, so in that vein, we disagree when people say we are proselytising I remember the story of a woman who moved to Crown Heights. She was secular. She was wondering why the Lubavitch women is the community were nice with her but never invited her at their Shabbes table. She had heard that Lubavitcher were cool and very welcoming. Every Shabbes, she was expecting to be invited, but the invitation never came. One day, while she was walking in the streets, a Lubavitcher woman told her "Leave your pants and begin to wear only tzniusdike clothes, because you are a bas melech - a daughter of the king." Since that day, she was accepted everywhere in Crown Heights and in fact, every shabbes, Lubavitcher women were fighting to have her at their shabbes table. That's how she became a Lubavitcher, little by little. All this to say that there is a huge difference of behaviour between a local Beis Chabad and a Lubavitch community, as Crown Heights, where there is no Beis Chabad at all. In a Beis Chabad, the Shliach goes toward you and reach you. In a Lubavitch community, this is you who have to reach us and we wil;l not lower our standards for you! But proselytes? We are not!