Pouring rain in downtown Tel Aviv about an hour ago.
And who, early in the morning, is crossing the junction (Ibn Gavirol / Shaul Hamelech) on the above photo ? A Chabad Meshichistim van playing chassidic music.:-)
Photos: Miriam Woelke
Sunday, January 30, 2011
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Those Meshichisten in Tel Aviv are becoming more and more similar to the Na Nach movement (the van, the music, the dance, etc.), and as a Lubavitcher, it disturbs me...
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteIn Ramat Aviv, the Chabad House (Meshichistim) have a Meshiach motorbike. Yellow colour and the flags everywhere. :-)
If you want to see the real nutty Meshichistim, go to Zfat.:-)))
In fact, it is disturbing because this is what the public sees and thinks that all Chabadnikim are like that.
Tomorrow night I am going to a Tanya Shiur at the non - Meshichistim.
I have seen on a video that in Tel Aviv there is even a Chabadnik who goes down the streets in rollers...
ReplyDeleteYes, this is what I mean when I say "disturbing". Most of the Israelis think that those Meshichisten is what Chabad is all about, while it is far far from the truth (the same with the Na Nach movement. Many people think there are the real Breslovers, while they are ostrisized from the real Breslovers). The more disturbing is that there is only in Israel those Meshichisten behave like that. Even in Crown Heights and Paris (cities which are full of Meshichisten), they don't behave like that. Concerning Tzfat, in the mainstream Chabad community, they are known to be violent if you oppose them (they are kind but don't dare contradict them or show them they are wrong). We call them "The Talibans". I don't know how they behave in Tzfat, but when they come in Crown Heights it's only for fights, arguments and violence. They are many Chabad institutions where Tzfatim are refused and many among the Chabad community have ask to stop giving them visas to study at the 770 yeshivah.
Those guys are an embarrasment for all of us. You can read a little bit about those Talibans here :
http://www.moshiachlisten.com/taliban.html
B"H
ReplyDeleteI have seen the Tel Aviv Roller Chabadnik many times. In fact, I took a picture of him a few days ago but he was too fast and the photo wasn't that great. However, I think he is demonstrating for something. Didn't his wife divorce him and got the kids. I forgot his reason for rolling around.
This guy in roller is a very complicated case. He doesn't demonstrate. In fact, he is in roller all the time. This is his way of doing Mivtzaim.
ReplyDeleteI can sums that story up for you. This guy is a shame for Chabad. I'll send you a private e-mail in a few minutes on the matter.
B"H
ReplyDeleteI think he is quite funny. It is not a bad PR.:-)))))
Yes, it is quite funny when you are not a Chabadnik and when you think that that guy represent the Chassidus. When you are a Chabadnik, you don't see anything funny about that guy, quite the contrary. There are some example which happened in the Rebbe's lifetime, and I can tell you that the words the Rebbe used to describe them were harsher than mine to say the least. Shlomo Carlebach was also a good people, but he was thrown out of Chabad by the Rebbe because of his some questionable approach and behaviour. In fact, we should be more careful about people who seem nice and funny.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteCarlebach is still very popular and many people in Jerusalem try to make money on his back. Giving Shlomo classes, Shlomo discourses, singing Shlomo songs and everyone has a story and claims to have known him. I am not into the movement at all but there is lots of money behind and a huge endless market.
And a lot of scandal the followers of Reb Carlebach want to hide, to say the least. One of my Chabad Mashpia told me: "In Chasidus, we believe that a music is imbued with the spirit of its composer. In the case of Reb Carlebach, it is not advisable to listen to his music for obvious reasons, no matter how kind and sweet his music was." It's all about business, but there is nothing Orthodox in it. He lived a dark life, and this is the sad truth that they want to hide and conceal in raising Reb Carlebach as an icon and a model. People should lear about his life and investigate why he was thrown out of Chabad.
ReplyDeleteB"H
ReplyDeleteI always thought that he left Chabad on his own because he realized that there was more money making for him by selling his own songs.
The assertion that "Chabad born composer" Shlomo Carlebach's music should be acceptable due to his supposed heritage is both historically inaccurate and specious.
ReplyDeleteCarlebach was never Chabad born - rather he was scion to a prominent German rabbinical dynasty. After coming to America and a stint in Lakewood he came to Lubavitch. Within a decade however, he moved on. In his words, later printed in Tikkun magazine Sept. 1997, he related that "the Rebbe said to me, "I cannot tell you to do it your way. But I can't tell you not to do it your way. So if you want to do it on your own, G-d be with you." So I split."
In any event, even if Carlebach had been a born Lubavitcher, his background would be meaningless - Solomon Schechter, a renowned scholar and theologian, whose theory of Catholic Israel has been the driving force of Conservative Judaism for over a century was indeed a "Chabad born" Jew - his Hebrew name was Schneur Zalman.]
The kiruv methods of Shlomo are opposed by almost everyone from Chabad to the yeshivish velt. Due to his "personal" life he was opposed even by Reform! Before addressing his kiruv methods it would be very wise to read about the stories he left behind. He is controversial beyond his kiruv style. He committed some averos I don't want to mention and he allowed some disturbing things to happen in his shul and kiruv activities, I don't want to mention either. For all this he was thrown out and his scandals continue after he left Chabad. Most of the people are not aware of the scandals he was involved in, and it's better not, but to make him into a model and a saint is quite disturbing. For all this, it is not recommended to sing his songs, no matter how beautiful they were. For my case, this is what I and most Chabadnikim avoid. Shlomo carlebach probably did have ahavas yisroel and every one will say that. But when it comes to kiruv it must be emphasized that it was not the right derech at all and it was even contrary to Halacha and proper tznius requirement. And therefore to make a kadosh out of him is crazy. It is not only foolish but also harmfull for him as is known that to say things about a niftar that aren't true is detrimental to the niftar. That does not mean we have to talk negatively about him for no reason but let's not loose our self here with our compliments of him either. The dark side of Carlebach is not known to many people because of the propaganda agenda of his followers, that's all.
Interview with R Shlomo (published in Tikkun Magazine in Fall 5758):
ReplyDeleteFrom 1951 to 1955 I was, mamash [really], the Rebbe's right-hand man. Today, Lubavitch sends out messengers all over the world, but then it wasn't yet organized and I was one of the first- actually Zalman (Schachter-Shalomi) and I were the first messengers of the Lubovitcher Rebbe, preaching his message to the world. So I did outreach.
"But I had some problems and I told the Rebbe about it. `Last night,' I told the Rebbe one day, `I had one hundred people come to learn and sing with me.' But in those days the Rebbe had the position that women couldn't sing with men [kol isha, women's voices would sexually arouse men according to some Orthodox traditions]. So I told the Rebbe, `When I told them that we had to sit separately men from women, I lost 90 people, and when I told them that women couldn't sing, I lost nine more, and the one person who remained was the biggest idiot. So instead of spending two hours with people who wanted to know something about Yiddishkeit, I wasted my time on one idiot. Let's assume that it's very important that men and women shouldn't sit together. Still, this is like a manicure for Judaism, making it super-beautiful, but if the person is having a heart attack you don't give him a manicure. So I can' t do outreach this way'.
"So the Rebbe said to me, `I cannot tell you to do it your way. But I can't tell you not to do it your way. So if you want to do it on your own, G-d be with you.' So I split. If I had stayed, and the Rebbe had gone with what I was saying, he could have been Rebbe of the world (wasn't he?), not just Rebbe of the Chassidim. Take Woodstock. Why should Swami Satchananda go there - why not the Lubavitcher Rebbe? It would have been a gevalt - it would have changed a whole generation. But the Rebbe chose to be the Rebbe of the Chassidim. You know, a few years after the Rebbe became chosen to be the Lubavitcher Rebbe, he wrote a letter to his Chassidim and said,`I have so many unbelievable dreams, but I can't do them because your heads are so small.'
Shlomo Carlebach began as the Reform Movement: he wanted ti change only one thing in Halachah, he ends up changing the whole Halachah and all the rest of his life, he stuggled against his Yetzer Hara. He had some personal Taavos in which he violated Halachah and committed shameful averos.
That's all I wanted to say: a great singer, BUT...
B"H
ReplyDeleteIn Israel, Carlebach is quite popular but among a certain kind of population. Newly religious hippie style and those spiritual women flying in the air and wearing pants under their skirts and turbans. This very freaky hippie style. They would even fall for the person Carlebach today.
I know that Shlomo had many secretaries.:-))))